Chixe Thread: Health Insurance

Health Insurance

Alday — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:45:20

See if I were you I would throw out some derogatory word at you

and

you sound like a prick.

quit trying to be me.

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Scrivs — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:32:00

See if I were you I would throw out some derogatory word at you and tell you to read what I said. I said all of your responses, I didn't hand pick one that was at Auburn. In any case I don't care who it was addressed to, I will not tolerate the way you respond to people. Obviously you like it here because you keep on participating, so try to join the rest of the crowd and learn how to respect other's opinions while stating your's in a way that isn't making you sound like a prick.

If you want to carry this over email or PM I have no problem with it.

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Alday — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:27:37

But wait, both you and Mikey said I was a big 'ol meanie to his mom...you both specifically said his mom (Auburn), yet the single comment in which I addressed her was pointed at her son, not her. So I think you can see the issue I have with both of your statements.

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Scrivs — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:23:28

Let's be real here man, nobody is making anything up about you and trust me I would have no problem whatsoever saying something to you online or in your face. If you can't sit back and read through your responses and see the condescending tone you use in almost all of your replies then you have the problem.

This of course isn't the first time this has happened, so if you got pegged with any label you have only yourself to blame. But thanks for saying I have amazing balls.

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Alday — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:17:10

What did I say to his mom that was so horrendous? I'm looking and my one response to "Auburn" was the link to EHealthinsurance and it was more a barb at her son than her.

I know you guys have me pegged as the big bad asshole and you like to delete my comments and send me nasty notes, but to just make shit up about me...to my face, shows either amazing balls or complete idiocy.

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MangoFalls — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:15:29

Well Scrivs, I agree with the tone of Mikes response and think it's spot on regardless of Auburn being his mother.

Alday, the tone of your additions to this discussion have been nothing but hostile and abrasive. I keep wondering why.

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Scrivs — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:03:58

If you are looking for health insurance I advise anyone to look into HSAs as they seem to make a lot of sense.

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Scrivs — Mon, 21 May 2007 07:02:28

Okay this is where I'm stepping in. I will admit Mike's response was a bit emotional based on the people involved, but after reading your responses Alday I must say you don't come across very well. Arrogance is one thing, but the way you talk down to everyone around here is not appreciated or welcome.

I'm all about thoughtful discourse and arguments, but talking down to others in this type of environment will not be tolerated. Talking to either of my partners in this manner is even worse so consider this your warning from me. Again, I am not agreeing with the way Mike responded, but considering who was involved I can understand.

I think Darice asked a good question and it is sad to see it take this route. I am obviously self-employed and I have health insurance. I don't need anything fancy because I am pretty fortunate with my health conditions.

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Alday — Mon, 21 May 2007 06:49:23

Aww, someone got his wittle feelwins hurt.

Don't get bitter Mike, one day your "self employment" will be such that you can enjoy the health care coverage us "gems" have. Tell me what my firing has to do with the fact that your business sense is so shittastic that you can't even afford health insurance? Hell, I'm not even currently employed and I have coverage.

Edit: Do you regularly have your mommy come defend you on the internet?

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Mike — Mon, 21 May 2007 05:26:33

Sorry Tom, not going to sit here listening to you rag on my Mom (Auburn, speaking about me, her son who runs this site, aka, 9rules.com) without chiming in.

First off, you're an idiot and obviously have never been self-employed and tried to get health insurance, and from your comments about "find a job where it has health insurance" I am now fully convinced you have not started your own company nor have ever been self-employed. I won't bore you with comments about how you may or may not have the self-integrity to start your own company or work for yourself, so just imagine what I could say and I'll leave it at that.

Second, I'm very glad you learned how to use the Internet and were able to find a result on Google under "health insurance quote", that proves to me right there that you're at least above the age of 2. Unfortunately, the same type of companies who offer health insurance to self-employed individuals (with gigantic deductibles BTW) for under a $300 per month are also the mortgage lending companies that give $700,000 loans for only $2,000 a month. It doesn't happen, it's bullshit, they're like leprechauns or the Easter Bunny, they exist only in fairytales. In fact, just to get some facts on my side, I actually called up eHealthInsurance.com and got a quote for myself (24 years old, non-smoker, with asthma) and it was $3,860/yr and had a $2,500 deductible. Hmm, sounds cheap, or not.

Third, weren't you just fired?

"After 4 years of faithful service, 4 years of picking up the slack for the ungrateful Ivory Tower management and their failed business plan after failed business plan I was fired"

You sure you were fired for reading a MS word document? I can't imagine why they'd want to let a gem like you go after reading some choice opinions like this:

"Why work for Mom and Pop's Diner for minimum wage when any braindead idiot can apply for a shitty customer service job, make $9-$10/hr and get healthcare fairly cheap?"

Calling all people who are underpaid and work in the customer service sector braindead idiots really puts the ribbon on your chest, if I do say so myself.

Good luck at your new job, hopefully you don't come down with a pre-existing condition before you can apply for health insurance, or else you might be applying for the same "Fuck U Up The Ass Insurance" we all enjoy.

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LorriM — Mon, 21 May 2007 04:42:18

Oh, and yes, pre-existing conditions make affordable health care almost impossible, if even possible at all, depending on where you live.
I can certainly attest to that, having pre-existing conditions.

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LorriM — Mon, 21 May 2007 04:40:18

Tyme: Yes, priority's differ for each of us. What we want, how we want to live, children, no children, all are a part of the factor. Single individuals who don't have children often want a different lifestyle than those with children. Single parents might have jobs that offer insurance, for a premium, but even then, they might not be able to afford it...food, clothing and shelter come first.

And, often single parents have to work at a job that does not offer insurance, because they have other mouths to feed, besides themselves. Just because some companies offer insurance doesn't mean you will become part of their staff. Quite often those who are employed might see an ad another job that offers more benefits, but they can't take time off work to even go on an interview for that position. There are so many variables. And, I know you understand that it doesn't mean a person isn't trying to better themselves just because they can't afford, or don't have, health insurance.

We are often faced with hard choices, and our decisions don't come easy.

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Tyme — Mon, 21 May 2007 04:24:17

I do admit that in the circle of people I know that do not have insurance some "could" afford it if they made different choices but it would mean a lifestyle change. A used car instead of a new one. Less luxury items, etc. The luxury items are more important at this stage of their life. The people I speak of are single.

The single parents or ones with kids are a different factor. The cost is too high and they are living paycheck to paycheck already.

People with pre-existing conditions also can't get affordable health care. It's not always cut and dry.

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Oli — Mon, 21 May 2007 03:06:06

amen karma. For all its faults, at least the NHS will keep us alive for free.

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karmatosed — Mon, 21 May 2007 02:56:08

This is one thing I am glad about being in the Uk over. Yes I have to pay perscription charges but that is nothing compared to the knowing if I did have an accident I can be taken into any casualty and treated for free. We pay it in our taxes yes, but it doesn't go up the amount of times I have to claim or if I have an existing condition. There is something about knowing no matter what happens (ok you can debate about the quality of UK health care) there is some level of care that I can get without paying.

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LorriM — Mon, 21 May 2007 02:48:54

Alday: Do you have children that are covered for under your insurance?

Most insurance companies charge a minimum of almost $300 a month for families...which amounts to at least $3K per year on a family plan, and those with two or more children often pay closer to $400 monthly.
The affordability for each family is dependent on the type of insurance they require, low co-pays or no co-pays, low deductibles, and the cost of prescriptions, etc., all figure into the equation. It isn't as easy as black and white for most individuals.

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Alday — Sun, 20 May 2007 23:44:57

I just did a quick quote on EHealthInsurance.com and came away with a Humana PPO plan with a $2,500 deductible for $81/mo. If your son can't afford that being self employed he might want to consider another line of work.

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auburn — Sun, 20 May 2007 20:36:05

Alday: I tried to explain - and please hear- my adult son is well educated and self-employed. Insurance is extremely expensive for someone like that and he just can't afford it. I've told him many times to seek medical services by mailing the full bill to me. Medical insurance is available in the US if you're poor (medicaid) or old (medicare). Some employers offer it, but not all. If you're disabled or need special education services as a child, you can apply for SSI (Social Security) and a high percentage of applications are now denied although there is an appeal process.

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Alday — Sun, 20 May 2007 17:16:24

Alday, not everyone doesn't have a job just because they are lazy. Single parents without higher education have a harder time managing a job and taking care of their kids. Just because you worked yourself up doesn't mean everyone can.

Yes they can, unfortunately though they have people like you telling them being mediocre and not doing better for themselves is OK because they are this protected victim class and daring to tell them they're fucking lazy is just mean, cuz gosh darn it, they juss can't do no betta. bullshit. Quit coddling these people, it hurts them more than they hurt themselves.

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auburn — Sun, 20 May 2007 15:58:45

I live and work in NY. I had 'family coverage' specifically to cover my son but when he graduated college, he was no longer covered. He is self-employed and has no medical insurance. If he were ill, he would go to an emergency room which has the obligation to treat him. He is not lazy or dumb.
The other part is my own retirement and health insurance. It looks as though I am going to have to work at the same place for more years than I thought. Medicare kicks in at age 65 but I will have worked 30 years at this place when I am age 62 and a pre-existing expensive condition closes insurances to me. I am seriously thinking of contacting research facilities in the US to be in one of their clinical trials because they cover fully all medical needs when you are their volunteer. The medication I need is $1500 a month and it needs to be in a generic form. That's what the clinical trials are about.

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Tyme — Sun, 20 May 2007 14:59:37

Now that I'm living back in NY, the health insurance that I had in California doesn't cover anything in NY so I had to shop around for more health insurance. A basic package that was decent cost around $250 a month but because I have health problems they wouldn't accept me into their program.

That's exactly why I haven't moved. I am still healing from the injuries I sustained which would be considered a pre-existing condition. I'm self-employed so that would mean a much higher rate. Once I am healed (I will not have sustaining damage) my rate would not go down, it just "might" not go up. The difference was about $300/mo which I would have paid temporarily if it was adjusted when I was well but for the rest of my life? Haha, don't think so.

Another thing, there is also the no-claim deal. If you didn't go to the doctor the whole year you get money back from what you paid on insurance that year. This is to keep people from going to the doctor with all kinds of thing that don't need medical attention.

Very smart! You'd be surprised how many people go to the doctor here to get a doctor's note because they called in sick and their employer requires one.

@peroty: Why is the tech support industry higher than a print shop? I thought that would be reversed. But of course it's barely 7am and I might not be thinking good yet lol.

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silvertje — Sun, 20 May 2007 13:56:46

We, the Dutch, are lucky. People complain about our new medical system because the monthly rates have doubled. But if you are poor, or a student, you get a monthly support fee to make up for the new higher rates. Insurance companies cannot refuse new clients, so even if you are chronically ill and you're going to claim tons of money they have to insure you.

I pay 122 euros per month, which I think is a lot, but when I think rationally it is very little because it covers almost everything.

The no-claim deal is being dropped next year, it will be replaced by a 150 euro policy excess.

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Darice — Sun, 20 May 2007 11:15:19

Alday, not everyone doesn't have a job just because they are lazy. Single parents without higher education have a harder time managing a job and taking care of their kids. Just because you worked yourself up doesn't mean everyone can. And if everyone could get a better job then cleaning or garbage picker, who would do those job? Every job counts to keep daily life going.

Well here in the Netherlands everyone has to pay taxes, a lot of tax is being paid here. But the citizen do see where their money goes, health care, one of the best public transportation in the world(albeit expensive). Student loans, every student with Dutch nationality has right on a student loan to do college and/or university. You pay back at very low interest once you get a job. The debt is tax deductible and if you don't have a job right away you don't have to pay until you do have a job.

Another thing, there is also the no-claim deal. If you didn't go to the doctor the whole year you get money back from what you paid on insurance that year. This is to keep people from going to the doctor with all kinds of thing that don't need medical attention.

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peroty — Sun, 20 May 2007 09:16:59

I have the misfortune of working in the tech support industry on a contract where the insurance would have been between $300-$500 per month. As a result, I have none and will not have any until I get brought on full time (hopefully in the next few months).

Beforehand however, I worked at a small printshop that was part of a national company (Not Kinkos!) and my insurance was more along the lines of $100-150 a month. I don't remember exactly.

It all depends on who you work for and how you're working there. A lot of times on contract jobs, even long term ones like the one I'm on, your staffing agency may offer insurance but depending on their size and how they handle it, it can be very affordable, or out of sight expensive.

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cooper — Sun, 20 May 2007 08:16:16

When you consider the one billion dollars a week - it may be more I'm not looking it up - we are spending a week in Iraq - I think the government could do much better by it's own people.

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MangoFalls — Sun, 20 May 2007 07:58:36

Medical coverage provided by an employer at a reduced cost in the US can vary wildly. I pay about $500 a month pre-tax for family coverage (2 adults and 2 kids). We have co-pays for office visits and prescriptions. One of our children has type 1 diabetes and the co-pay cost of her prescriptions and insulin pump supplies average another $180 a month out of pocket. One top of these fees is the percentage that we would pay if one of us were to need an operation or emergency services. It's certainly less than paying the full price for everything but is still a large financial burden. At this point in my life I would never even consider a job that did not offer medical benefits.

People in the US like to complain about taxes. I would gladly pay higher taxes if I felt that my money was being spent in a reasonable manner. I think the one thing we are good at is pissing money away with little regard for any value in our spending.

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cooper — Sun, 20 May 2007 07:55:11

Well Alday you are very fortunate. There are many people who can't afford that three thousand dollars a year and who (due to employers dropping the health insurance option) do not even have that option.
Buying private health insurance is expensive. Too expensive for many.

and like I said your pretty lucky if your job is offering it there is plenty of evidence to prove you wrong but honestly it's not worth it.

"he problem isn't the system, the problem is lazy asses more content to feed off the tit of the government than actually do what I did, which is work for what you want."
The working poor and much of the lower middle class are the ones who suffer, and as the lower middle class is ever expanding and this trend will continue.

Not everyone who doesn't agree with you a socialist or a communist, or whatever other dirty little name you feel like calling them?

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Alday — Sun, 20 May 2007 07:12:47

No Alday lives in a perfect world.

Far from it. When I say every job I've worked for offered health insurance I mean it. That's from working at a hobby shop at 17 to working at Wal Mart to working for a 200 employee credit counseling company. If the job offer doesn't include health insurance then don't take it. There's plenty out there that offer it.

Small employers however are very likely not to offer the option to their employees because the cost is prohibitive.

Then don't work there. Why work for Mom and Pop's Diner for minimum wage when any braindead idiot can apply for a shitty customer service job, make $9-$10/hr and get healthcare fairly cheap?

the lower down you are on the socio-economic ladder you are, the less educated you are the poorer your health care will be.

Bullshit socialist pap. I came from pretty far down the "socio-economic ladder" and I worked my way up. The problem isn't the system, the problem is lazy asses more content to feed off the tit of the government than actually do what I did, which is work for what you want.

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estarla — Sun, 20 May 2007 06:54:03

There's a few different types of health insurance. HMO is a health maintenance organization and there are a couple different types of them. For instance Kaiser Permanente is an HMO itself, so you have to go to Kaiser for your coverage. Other HMOs are networks in which doctor's offices are contracted to provide "health maintenance" functions (the very minimal preventive health care) with the hopes that preventive care will lower costs in the long run. Problem is, it doesn't cover much more than what is preventive.

PPO is the next highest, where you pay co-pays for different fee-for-service functions (office visits, outpatient therapy, etc.) and you get coverage up to a certain point for each calendar year. Doctors' offices and hospitals are contracted through the PPO network so that the co-pays are cheaper in network than out-of-network and in exchange, the doctors' offices get the referral business from the insurance company. Often there are different levels for calendar year deductible and total out-of-pocket stop-loss (low option, high option) where the insurance has to pay 100% of everything after a certain amount of money has been paid out of your pocket.

Some custom group health plans will combine features of both of the above into one. That's good because the basics are covered but the PPO will provide additional coverage for some basic procedures.

Group health plans through the employer are coveted because underwriting costs are low when you can lump everyone into one plan. Individual policies are very often unaffordable because the cost to underwrite one plan isn't split amongst many like it is for a group plan.

Some employers are self-insured...meaning hospital and doctor's networks will provide 100% health insurance to their family members inside the hospital network.

When you pass the age of 65, Medicare by itself is never enough--by relying 100% on Medicare you're leaving yourself sorely unprotected. It's always recommended to get additional coverages on top of Medicare or you're setting yourself up for some financial difficulty for simple elderly health care.

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Darice — Sun, 20 May 2007 03:29:59

Thanks for the explanation joshawesome and nowickedwitch. It's pretty scary to live in a first world country and not having insurance. If I lived in the US I would have huge medical bills. Even now that all is covered for me I still get shocked when the insurance sends me my monthly cost breakdown of what they have covered.

I'm not saying its perfect here, they do a lot to keep the cost down, like generically medicine instead of the original one. But if correct that mostly has to do with patents. Also you always need to be referred to a specialist by your general practitioner because of insurance.
And each year insurance cost rises. But in the end you have your rights to get good medical help.

In a perfect world everyone should have right to (affordable)insurance and health care on equal level. Just like we have human rights.

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cooper — Sun, 20 May 2007 02:21:44

No Alday lives in a perfect world.

In this country large employers offering an insurance option to their employees has been reported to be as low as fifty two percent ( reported by the last NIH study offered at the CDC website). Over the last ten years even large employers have been dropped offering insurance due to the increasing rates.
I've seen stats which read as low as forty percent not offering to as high as seventy - percent not offering it.

Either way the percent of employers offering it is decreasing yearly.

The cost of insurance has risen eighty- seven percent in the last 7 years, wages have risen 20 percent.

Many who are offered the option by their employer can not afford to pay it.

The average employee responsibility per year - and this is only the average and may be much higher in some states or companies - is three thousand two hundred dollars a year.

In this country some states are better than others in regard to their laws in regard to insurance.
Massachusetts I think recently passed a mandatory health care law requiring residents to have it ( and pay for it). I don't know how they address the people who can't afford to pay for it but at least the companies are legally responsible for offering it to self employed - another problem here many companies do not offer it to the self employed or a self employed individual with say diabetes or high blood pressure and if they do either that condition is excluded or the cost is at least double that of what a person without a health concern might pay.

Small employers however are very likely not to offer the option to their employees because the cost is prohibitive.

Health care in this country is in very bad shape, those who have it are very lucky and although we have the best medical care in the world the lower down you are on the socio-economic ladder you are, the less educated you are the poorer your health care will be.

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joshawesome — Sun, 20 May 2007 02:13:27

I was always covered under my dad's health insurance while I was in school, but when I turned 23, even if I was still in school I was no longer covered. Most jobs do offer health insurance at a discounted rate, but it's still pretty pricey depending on where you live. While I was in California, I bought my own health insurance plan and I paid $200 a month for no premiums, etc. Meaning I didn't have any co-pays and I didn't have a deductible. I figured in the event that I got sick, I would need great coverage, and I was right so it worked out well.

Now that I'm living back in NY, the health insurance that I had in California doesn't cover anything in NY so I had to shop around for more health insurance. A basic package that was decent cost around $250 a month but because I have health problems they wouldn't accept me into their program. I'm still shopping around, but if I ever get sick I have prescription coverage which helps out a lot and there are a few doctors that are really nice when you don't have health insurance. I can't imagine going to the hospital though, I wouldn't be able to afford it.

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Darice — Sun, 20 May 2007 02:05:47

So basically most people are able to get insurance through their jobs at low cost. And otherwise just pay for one. I read somewhere that the price depends on where you live? Different states, different prices?

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dook — Sun, 20 May 2007 01:01:54

The closest thing to socialized healthcare the US has is Medicare (for people over a certain age) and Medicaid (for people with severe financial troubles..and by severe, I mean the population that fit that dichotomy of being able to afford it, and not being able are quite far in between).

Should we have socialized healthcare? Yes. Should the US get with the program, accept the metric system, introduce gov't supported healthcare that goes beyond meeting the criteria of poor.

But hey, this is a discussion I don't want to get into..I hate the politics here.

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Alday — Sun, 20 May 2007 00:33:00

The federal government is not responsible for the health care of US citizens, there is no "right" to health care.

Get a job that provides health care at a modest price, it's not hard, every job I've ever had has had a decently priced health care package.

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Darice — Sun, 20 May 2007 00:22:30

I've been wondering for sometime already, what is exactly the deal of health insurance for people living in the US? Here in the Netherlands we have an universal health insurance, meaning there is law that says that you must insure yourself. You may choose the company, the package(basic, extra, with dental, etc.) And once a year you have the opportunity to switch company if you are not satisfied.

Even so not everyone is insured but if they do get sick they got a right on equal health treatment. This is paid out of a fund kept by all insurance companies, for cases like this. And last the cost of health insurance varies from 100 euro a month for a basic coverage to 500 euro or more. But if you have basic, it covers most common things.

And most important, everyone has the right on the same price, even if you are already sick or have something like diabetes. You pay the same as a healthy person.

So if you live in the US, do you have health insurance? If not, why? Tell me more about it.